Interview with Mike Birbiglia, writer/director/star of Don’t Think Twice
For years, an improve group called The Commune have been the stars of their small New York improv theater. The members of the group, Mile (Mike Birbiglia), Samantha (Gillian Jacobs), Jack (Keegan-Michael Key), Allison (Kate Micucci), Bill (Chris Gethard), and Lindsay (Tami Sagher) entertain audiences night after night by performing as a finely-tuned troop. But, by day, they have to support themselves by working soul-crushing menial jobs.
Then, after they learn that their beloved theater is closing down and a hit comedy television show, ala Saturday Night Live, is looking for talent, the group dynamic begins to fracture and it may be time for the group to stop dreaming and get on with their lives.
Such is the premise of writer/director/star Mike Birbiglia’s new film Don’t Think Twice. While Birbiglia’s first film, Sleepwalk with Me (2012), was based on his work as a stand-up comedian, his new film finds Birbiglia drawing from his improv past to tell a story of friendship, aspiration, and the pain and promise of change.
Birbiglia recently spoke with CinemaNerdz about Don’t Think Twice. The conversation ran the gamut of how much of the film was improvised, the difference being stand-up and improv, casting the film, and exactly how bowling can make a group of actors a family of sorts. What follows is a transcript of that discussion.
CinemaNerdz: Obviously this was a movie about imrpov, but I was wondering just how much of the film itself was improvised? How much did the cast bring to the script?
MIKE BIRBIGLIA: Well it’s surprisingly written for a film about improv. You know, I wrote probably twelve or thirteen drafts of the screenplay over the course of eighteen months. You know ultimately my aesthetic is stuff that feels like people are just talking and so I think a lot of people see the movie and think it’s an improvised movie. Then I’m like “Okay, then the trick worked.”
CinemaNerdz: Well that’s a testament to the actors as well as the writers.
BIRBIGLIA: Yeah, I try to make it feel like that. And then the other thing I always say, and I’ve heard that Woody Allen says this to actors sometimes, is that “whatever comes out, is the best thing,” however you would say that, I think is basically the best thing.
CinemaNerdz: Do you think this film will increase an awareness of improv culture?
BIRBIGLIA: Well, we’ll see if people come out and see it. (Laughs) Or it will decrease people’s awareness. (Laughter) No, I think it could, it’s definitely a love letter to improv. It’s a love letter to Saturday Night Live even.
People think sometimes that I’m making fun of improv or I’m making fun of Saturday Night Live and I’m like, “No, no, I’m trying to present that world.” I originally said to Ira Glass, I was like you know the idea is it’s The Big Chill (1983) set in the world of improv.
I think it could [increase awareness]. You know, improv is big right now. I will say, I did an improv workshop this morning at the Planet Ant Theater in Hamtramck…that’s one of the things we’re doing to celebrate the film in every city I go to. Yesterday I was in Minneapolis at the Brave New Workshop in this huge theater and we’re doing one at Second City in Chicago tomorrow and at Improv Olympic in Chicago. We do these free improv workshops in every town that we go to to embrace improv and to point out that Don’t Think Twice is not a Christopher Guest film. We’re not making fun of the world, we love it.
CinemaNerdz: So, you are kind of forcing the film to raise awareness then (laughs)?
BIRBIGLIA: Yes, indeed. Your words, not mine.
CinemaNerdz: You mentioned Woody Allen earlier, and the movie reminded me of this scene from Midnight in Paris (2011) when Owen Wilson’s character Gil is talking to Ernest Hemingway (Corey Stall) and he says “Read my manuscript.” And Hemingway replies “I hate it.” And Gil says “You haven’t even read it.” And Hemingway answers “I hate it if it’s good and if it’s bad it doesn’t matter.”
BIRBIGLIA: (Laughter) Ah, yes. It’s the sentiment.
CinemaNerdz: There’s this thing about writers, comedians, actors, it doesn’t really matter who, there’s that sense of jealously….
BIRBIGLIA: Or journalists. (Laughter).
CinemaNerdz: Essentially, yeah. But you captured that really well. Is that world sort of one that is uncomfortable and one you live in just because you have to?
BIRBIGLIA: I think it’s all professions. I think it’s all groups of friends. I really think jealousy is a virus that’s in everything. Sure, that’s something I feel and something I’m ashamed of. When I look at the Miles character that I play, it makes me cringe to say the words because they’re some of the emotions that I have felt. When I watch the movie, I get emotional. The character I want to be in my life is Gillian Jacob’s character, Samantha, who’s really about the integrity and the art form and the group. Who I kind of fear I am at my worst, well, not my worst, but on some days, is Keegan’s character, Jack. His character is all about his ambition and his goals, but in some ways that’s how you have to be if you want to direct movies. That’s the thing, it’s an ambitious sport. It’s not the easiest thing to do. Jealously is in everything but it’s especially in comedy.
CinemaNerdz: All of the actors who portrayed the members of the Commune had this great camaraderie. I think people hear about stand-up comedians and how it’s lonely and isolating, how is that different than this improv group?
BIRBIGLIA: It’s interesting that you say that because there is, to your earlier point about awareness, when I do interviews people will say “so this is like a group of stand-up comedians” and I’m like “No, no, no! That’s a completely different art form. This is improv.”
My wife made this observation about improv once, she said “Your stand-up comedian friends are so mean and your improv friends are so nice” and I said “Well, it’s true, but it’s also subtler than that.” And, in some ways, that was the inspiration for this movie, this idea that when someone gets something in your improv group you’re like “Alright, you got it!” and there’s a part of you that’s like “How come that’s not me?” I always at the workshops I do, that ultimately you guys have this great asset because you have each other, because you know if you’re a writer, a creator, a director, it’s a pretty lonesome field; you have this community of people who you can bounce stuff off of. In my case, I had readings at my house and I would say “come on over” to actor and writer friends, we’re going to read the script and then we’re gonna get pizza from Blue Collie. I had to make sure the pizza was good because that was my guarantee. (Laughter.) My guarantee was that the script might be bad but the pizza will be great and it always got people there and it also made people not feel bad about giving hard criticisms, I always encourage people and say “What’s the worst thing you’d say about this?” They’re not right, but it might be helpful to know.
CinemaNerdz: One reason that the film works so well, besides the writing and directing of course….
BIRBIGLIA: Well, thanks.
CinemaNerdz: Is the acting and the people you cast in the improv group. Can you talk a little about the casting process you went through?
BIRBIGLIA: Chris Gethard and Tami Sagher were the first in the sense that they’re people I improvise with a lot. Tami’s brilliant, she’s a writer/produce for Girls on HBO. Gethard is the host of The Chris Gethard Show. They’re both brilliant improvisers and I actually had to say to them when we were doing these readings, “I don’t know if I’ll be able to cast you. You’re the best choice for this, but if the movie is financed by a studio or whatever your part might be [played by] Claire Daines and your part might be [given to] Jon Cryer.” And they were fine with that. Luckily I was able to cast them because I made the film with Cold Iron Pictures and they were open to my vision. Keegan was the next on board because it was really important for me to cast somebody who could both have the dramatic range that Keegan does and also convincingly be someone who would be cast on that show. That’s always key whenever I see a movie about ballet and the ballerinas are as good as professional ballerinas. Keegan was on MAD TV for like six years and on Key & Peele. He’s the best, literally the best, one of the best in the world. And then Gillian was someone who Lena Dunham suggested and she said, “You gotta get Gillian Jacobs.” I watched her stuff and I wasn’t sure. But she said “Gillian Jacobs can do anything.” And that proved to be entirely true. And then Kate Micucci, I was just watching Garfunkel and Oates on IFC and I thought this person is so unique.
One of the things about casting is that you always want the cast to look different from each other. If you look at the poster even, it’s like, no one’s going to be mistaken for each other. No one’s going to think Kate is Tami or that Keegan is me or likewise. That’s one of the goals in casting an ensemble. With Sleepwalk with Me (2012), we would show early cuts of the movie to people and they would go, “Who are those people” They’re my parents. (Laughter.) There’s a lot of character confusion in films sometimes. That’s a big lesson I learned with Sleepwalk with Me.
CinemaNerdz: I adored Sleepwalk with Me, which was really well done. But it was your first stint as a director. Obviously, you’ve learned some lessons from it.
BIRBIGLIA: Yes, a lot.
CinemaNerdz: But this is almost a completely different beast. Were any of those lessons moot for this movie, or did you feel you feel like you were making your first again?
BIRBIGLIA: That’s a good question because it’s a very different movie, in the sense that it’s entirely fictional and it’s not about my life and it’s an ensemble. Sleepwalk with Me was very much about a single protagonist. I did learn a great many lessons, cinematically or directorially. The biggest lesson is to shoot more. You’ve got to shoot more footage. Roll longer. Roll earlier. Cut later. Every second, every frame, will matter to have that accessible to you in the editing room. That was one of the biggest things.
CinemaNerdz: That probably helped with capturing the improv performances….
BIRBIGLIA: Yes, absolutely. So, we just shot a lot. The other thing is whenever I would do the improv I would say “Say this in your own words, but know that ultimately, I’m the director, and I may have to sort of reel this in at a certain point and say that we need to get this line in this way. That’s the onus that you have as the director. You ultimately have to kind of be the bad guy, you’ve got to be the boss. No one likes to be the boss. Being the boss is no fun. You get the control but you don’t get the companionship. You get your vision. But ultimately the cast has a commune with each other that is in some ways deeper than mine.
CinemaNerdz: I found it interesting that this movie managed to balance all of these emotions and all of these universal experiences along with being funny. Now when you went into that, how did you tackle writing a script like that?
BIRBIGLIA: Ultimately, I tried to veer towards the truth. So the more things would make me feel uncomfortable when I would write them, I would think “Well we’re in good territory here.” Then, when you have a readings and things and see what people laugh at and you would go “Oh, okay I guess that resonates with other people.” That’s helpful to know. And then sometimes beneath that, what you’re talking about, the calibration between comedy and drama comes down to the edit. Like with the Ben Stiller scene, there are versions of it that are five minutes long in the edit and they’re all laughs. Wall to wall laughs, with all these jokes. And we had to pull it back because it started to feel like another movie. It started to feel a bit like a broad comedy and that wasn’t the intent of that scene. The intent of the scene was that their worlds don’t fit anymore. And that he’s a little bit embarrassed of his roots.
CinemaNerdz: Yeah, no…you managed that.
BIRBIGLIA: I know, it’s so painful!
CinemaNerdz: But it was a great scene. I was wondering how you prepared the actors to be a troop. Was there an improv boot camp?
BIRBIGLIA: Yeah, we did two or three weeks where they came into town early. It’s an independent film and, since there’s no budget, I had to convince them to come to town on their own dime. I got advice from Frank Oz, who said to take them bowling. That’s what’s gonna make them feel like friends. So I brought the cast to town and we went bowling. And it was really fun. We were all terrible. But Gillian was the best because she had the best post-roll dance moves. Who has those?
Our coaches were Liz Allen, Gavin Speiler, and Anthony Atamunik who came around and gave improv workshops. And we did shows at the Upright Citizens Brigade and at the Magnet Theater. It was really wild because Gillian and Kate had never done improv and the next thing you know they’re on stage in front of a live audience. It was very brave of them.
CinemaNerdz: Was the script the same after you worked with the actors for those two weeks?
BIRBIGLIA: The script definitely evolved when the cast came to town. We rehearsed the harder scenes – the street fight scene. That scene was hard. Partly because you’re in the street and it’s long and it’s painful and there are so many characters to cover with the camera. So there’s a lot of choreography, the camera and the physical. There would be things where I would say in rehearsal, “Ask me to try anything,” and Gillian said, “I don’t feel like my character would go in the bar.” And I went “Let’s try that.” And it worked. So she sits outside. It’s more dynamic. That’s something I feel very lucky about with these particular actors. I don’t know if I’ll ever work with a cast as brilliant and collaborative again. And I’ve had to come to grips with that.
See Mike Birbiglia’s Don’t Think Twice in theaters beginning August 5, 2016!
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